Official Luthiers Forum!

I have all the popular books, and a few obscure ones, on building. As much as I would love to be a student somewhere, that's not going to happen. So, I need some advice. If you were going to follow one book from beginning to end, which one would it be?

I have a bolt-on neck from John's basement, complete with hardware. And diddly and squat for form and jigs at the moment, not knowing which way I was headed. I want to break through this paralysis and start doing something, but with so much information and various approaches, its a bit overwhelming.

So, knowing what you know now, what direction would you send a newbie?

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Aoibeann

Lillian, I too would highly recommend a Kit. It will make it a lot easier not having to worry about bending, shaping and radiusing braces etc... and later when you get used to building you can add the other challenges to the build.
And you know there's many of us here ready to help!
Best of luck,

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I'm only into my third guitar (the second is on the shelf for awhile as I
ponder my first commission), but I've thought this over, and of the many
sources I used for my first, I can't come up with only one that would have
suited me. Cumpiano/Natelson was a great resource, but I didn't want to
use the neck joint in the book nor the updated one on Cumpiano's web
site. And it was difficult trying to visualize it with the sparse photos.
Robbie's DVD was really great, especially the visuals, but there was
something I didn't want to follow, can't recall what it was. Finish after the
neck was on? I dunno. There was the Kinkead book, really valuable for all
the photos, but he did the finish with the neck on. I perused archives and
asked questions here and on the MIMF and darn near memorized Kathy
Matsushita's site. Also, I was using an LMI kit; Robbie's DVD was the only
thing that was compatible with it. I have to say, I did not use anything
from Frank Finocchio, John Mayes or Stewmac. Maybe one of them could
have been a single source. Like Hesh said, merging instructions from
diverse sources generates a lot more questions, but for me, it was the
only way I could build what I wanted. Maybe too bullheaded or too much
hubris. But if you can find a single source to follow, it definitely will
simplify thing for you.

This must be an exciting time for you!

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I would follow the Cumpiano/Natelson book. You can adapt newer mothods like a bolt-on neck, or even use a dovetail neck if your prefer, but the basics are all in that book.

Kits are great, but if you have any decent amount of woodworking experience and tools, you can easily create your own guitar from materials supplied by vendors. There's nothing quite like the tactile sensation of carving a neck (as much as I hate it), or the other processes of building a guitar. You will learn a good bit from a kit, but even more from building one from more raw materials. You don't need to resaw your own woods to get that experience though... that's not all it's cracked up to be.Don Williams39079.8204976852

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Lilian:

Hesh makes a great point as usual on sticking with one book or DVD.

If you haven't bought your top, back and sides yet, I would recommend contacting John Hall to get the combo of your choice. In addition, he has all of the forms and various jigs, fixtures and tools that you'll need along the way. He can set you up with virtually any size and model of kit and even bend the sides for you if you want to delay getting a bender. Most important of all, he'll be there to coach you along and make it all work as intended. I know this from personal experience.

Whatever you decide, just start building and things will fall into place soon and start makig sense. Of course, we're always here to help!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

A kit isn't an option at the moment. The past month has brought many changes into our lives. While they are all good changes and changes I wanted, my pool of play money has dried up for a while.

On the positive side, I have back and side sets and tops to pick from, I have brace stock, material for head and tail stock. I have material for jigs. I even have plans for some cool jigs. I have a heating blanket wired to a timer. I a fixed based router and can get my hands on a laminate trimmer as well as a table saw and drill press. So... while a kit isn't a possibility, I'm not stuck with a hunk of wood and a file either.

My son is now living with us and is interested in maybe building an acoustic, maybe just helping until we start on an electric for him. Either way, I'll have another set of hands helping me.

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Aoibeann

No, Hesh, you were correct. I have a stash of wood. I was looking for suggestions on whose book or DVD to follow from beginning to end of the building process. Finishing is a separate animal, and I understand this.

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Aoibeann

So Lillian....

I'll try to re-cap you situation.

You have most of the materials required for building you acoustic guitar: sides/back,top, bracing, neck w/block and mat for tail block and materials for jigs.

What it sounds like you need for the remainder are fretboard and bridge woods, binding material, linings, tuners and nut and saddle material.

So, now that you have your material listed.....

I would also second Don's suggestion regarding Tradition and Technology by Cumpiano/Natelson. This is what I used for my first and with the help from forums like this, it turned out fine.

Don't get anxious, this is where you can get overwhelmed and mess something up.

Your first step will of course be to pick one book and stick with it. Most of us here have used one of the books that you will choose so ask lots of questions along the way for help.

I think the next decision will be what type of guitar shape you want to make, than the scale and body joint (ie: 12fret, 14fret).

Than it's on to making some jigs if you want and than starting on either the body assembly or the neck.

This is probably enough to get you going, than ask the next questions you have. We are all here to help you succeed.

So, take a couple of deep breaths and choose which of those books your going to "follow" and go from there.

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My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I would second (or third...fifth or sixth) the idea of using C&N's book. The task at hand can be daunting, but like eating an elephant you can do it, one bite at a time. The C&N book will walk you through it one bite at a time and you can ask questions here about incorporating the neck you have purchased.

I built my first using the C&N book and had no idea what I was doing. Begining with no woodworking experience and few tools, I just blindly followed the "instructions". I recall being thouroghly amazed a time ot two that things actually fit together and worked like they should have. In the end I had built a guitar that some years later I'm still proud of and fostered an addiction. I'm sure you will do the same.

Best of luck

Oh, what an opening...but...can't post religious viewpoints here, we'll have to go to "off topic"!    But, on topic, the Cumpiano book is good if a little dated...Kinkeade is good for an alternative method to Cumpiano, and John Maye's DVD's are excellent and comprehensive...plus, the forum right here contains all the secrets of the universe on 3x5 cards!!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

John Mayes DVD set has been very helpful for me--I refer to it constantly.

I built 'a bunch' of guitars (one trad classical+ a bunch of D-18/28style) 25 yrs ago and have just gotten started again on building. 25 yrs ago you had a choice of two or three books,no videos,no internet- much easier choice!
I've got the Cumpiano and Natelson book. It is 'complete' but really makes things (everything) very complicated to my limited brainpower.
The only flat-top videos I have are the Mayes videos which are amateurish, and not very helpful to me.

My recommendation would be to get yourself a copy (public library, to buy try abebooks.com or similar) of David Russell Young's 'The Steel String Guitar-Construction and Repair' and follow most of the steps you find there. Add a truss rod to the neck (instead of his Martin-style solid bar) and use your bolt-on neck (instead of his butt epoxy joint) and you can follow the rest of his method.
You don't need radiused dishes and a lot of specialized jigs to follow his instructions, but you can build a good-sounding instrument with a domed back and flat top.

Whatever you build will amaze everybody (even yourself), so the main thing is to just get going!

Just 2 cents worth from back in the Dark Ages!

John

Cumpiano, Kinkead, Sloane, Jim Williams. I merged ideas from all of these, and I'm thrilled with how they've turned out.     Cumpiano (using his neck attaching method shown on his website) is great and a very complete source for building. He is "old school", and the book is hard to use because he mixes a steel string and a classical construction together in a hard to follow way. But the man knows what he's talking about.   Kinkead uses more up-to-date techniques and the book is choc-full of great photos. It is very easy to follow and the photos make it easy to understand. Those two are my favorites.

I've also got the whole set of Mayes DVD"s, and Robbie's finishing DVD and both are excellent. My problem with the DVD's is I have no way to watch them in the shop. Having the Kinkead book open to a nice, large, color picture really helps.

Ronold man39079.9834490741

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OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Lillian, you just gotta start somewhere and i believe you're now ready to do just that sister! C&N is what some call the Bible of lutherie and is an excellent ref book to have, i'd also recommend either John Mayes or Robbie's DVD if you can allow your spending on that but not necessary if you're a bit like me and love to manage and make your own experience and besides, OLF is the best school i've ever known !

Do you have a body size that pleases you most? Dread, OOO, OO, O, OM, SJ, AJ, CATHEDRAL?

Once you know what you will build and the scale length and number of frets, you gotta join your top plates after preparing your wood on a shooting board and a plane or a jointer-edger and candling it through a window to make sure there 's no light that will pass through the mating surfaces, glue the plates with Titebond.

Then, you'll feel very satisfied because you will have made your very first baby steps in lutherie and feel better and dream of the other steps that will follow, more lack of sleep and more spending on tonewoods, your sweetie will have to hide the kitchen table or any furniture made with wood!

Remember that we'll always be here to help, no matter what your questions might be!

Good luck Lillian'

Serge

Thank you one and all.

Hesh, your assessment of C&W's book is on the money as far as I'm concerned. I've opened it several times and started it, but its right up there with reading about Riparian Rights in Washington State. Puts me to sleep every time. There is a lutherie group up here, but they seem to meet only during the week, well past my bedtime. 4 am comes quickly when you don't want it to. So, yes but no, no one up here I can talk to.

I know of a place on line that I can rent instructional videos/DVDs at a reasonable price. There are 23 videos available. Frank's set is one of them.

John, of all the books out there, I have often wondered why no one ever mentions David Russel's book. I know I read it a couple of times now.

Serge, I want to be and I figured if I put it out there that I want to start, I have obligated myself to following through with it. And since we won't be moving until Ryan graduates, I can start unpacking the shop and getting it setup to use.

Pat, its nice to know that there are other Kathy groupies out there. I can blame her for all of this. She made it all look and sound so dang easy. How are you doing by the way?

Ronn and Rod, you are right, I have been getting anxious because there is an elephant on my plate and I don't know if its been stewing long enough.

Larry, can I borrow your 3x5 cards? I should have been making them all along and never thought about it. What a wonderful idea.


As for body size, I have plans for an OM/000 and what came in Kinkeade. I'm more inclined towards fingerstyle. I have been hearing of late that 12 fret lends itself to finger playing, but the neck I have is a 14 fret. I intrigued by parabolic bracing. It just seems to make sense. Beyond that, I don't know what to say.

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Aoibeann

[QUOTE=JohnAbercrombie]
The only flat-top videos I have are the Mayes videos which are amateurish,
and not very helpful to me.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry you did not like the videos John. If you like you can send them back
and I'll be glad to refund your money.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Lillian, You might find thet the C/N is a great reference and if you follow it you will come out with a nice instrument.
I started out with the David Russell Young book, the C/N book and a class from Tom Ribbecke. I got the most out of working with Tom.
The David Russell Young book is probably not mentioned much as I believe it's out of print, but I might be wrong on that. I don't think I'd use the neck joint in it however, but it's very straight forward book.
Cumpiano/Natelson is just a classic and a great reference, try not to sell it short. It may save you somewhere down the line!
Don't look at the books as a blue print, but rather a method or process to get through "eating the Elephant" if you will. So pick and choose differnt sections from different books and figure out how to meld it all together into a process that works for you. They all have a lot offer.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Lillian, I have Robbie's DVD and I have Frank's tape. Both have good instructions but in many instances they use different methods to accomplish a given task. Several times when I needed guidence I found myself watching both and then choosing the method that seemed the best for me. I liked having different options shown to me before I decided how I was going to do it myself. The drawback to Frank's tapes it that he uses a prefabed neck and doesn't go into finishing at all while Robbie does cover these areas. So if you are going to get only one I would recommend Robbie's, however if renting both is an option then I would say do that because both are worth it.

I just read through the Iring Sloane book "steel string guitar construction", which I thought was a quick easy read, and I liked the part where he was hanging out with Leadbelly. The cumpiano book was a skim through for me so far but full of some vital nuggets. I choose to do dovetails though because it seems more challenging.

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

Lillian,

I am only half way through my first, but have MANY started, on paper and in my head. I have enough wood for a LOT of guitars, both backs/sides and tops. I am just setting up a studio dedicated to building stringed instruments, so yes, I am hooked as well. I have been seriously woodworking for over 25 years so have a large tool inventory and know well my abilities and weeknesses. I tell you all this so you can temper my recommendations.

I have read all of the books I can get my hands on, C&N twice, Kinkead probably three times, Sloan, Benedetto, Courtnal, Siminoff, Heard, both volumes of Teeter and many on the history of the instrument. I have John Mayes DVD's and they are wonderful and full of neat little tricks. I also have a couple of Robbies DVD's and they two offer great advice. I have magazine articles and books on guitar repair that also help. So my first is self designed OM'ish with a venetian cut-away. The box is together and is ready for binding. The neck is blocked out. I chose not to go the Cumpiano method because I want develop 'models' which I can repeat, so I build forms for bending and assembly. I have researched this stuff to death but still learn new things almost everyday and will learn more as I move through the next steps. Both Cumpiano and Kinkead have recieved wood from me and have lent me some of their time to discuss various aspects of building. At the end of the day, I would stick with Kinkead. Jonny presents his stuff well, has a plan for a great little guitar and his method is modern and EASILY REPEATABLE. Although those good on a bending iron will be quite repeatable as well. I think that you will find that no one reference is complete. I think Cumpiano has stated that draft one of his and Natelson's book was over 800 pages, it is half that now because the publishers felt that it was too large. Still, my copy is quite tatered from the times I have flipped through it for specific ideas and descriptions of processes. So, I would go with Kinkead but use every other resource you have on hand to fill what ever gaps jump in your way. This forum is the first reference you should probably use. On the guitar, just build the Kinkead plan you have and brace a bit on the light side and it will be a fabulous fingerstyle guitar, save your next one for innovation and trying something new. Adding slot heads and stuff like that just complicates the process.

Best of luck and don't be afraid to ask these people any questions you have, no matter how trivial they may seem! I don't offer much advise on processes because I too am new at building, I do have a lot of ideas and opinions based on research and from the great fortune I have to access the experience of some high end builders who are customers and friends but will refrain from offering up much advise until my hands have completed a process, but there is no shortage of true experience here to help walk the path with you.

Shane

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Canada

Hey Lillian

I have a different approach I have Cumpiano and Natelson, but the
only time I actually open it is if I'm hoping to find a random measurement
I haven't found somewhere else, like how tall the upper face brace should
be. Other than that, I don't think I've actually used a book, and haven't
found any of them to be useful when it comes to setup. Dan Erlewine's
repair book is awesome with setup, but only covers electric instruments.     

I used step by step websites, like Kathy's. I'd look at a picture and think,
"Alright, that's what it needs to look like next." Since you're using a
watkins neck that already has its hardware, you'll be ok if you have the
basic outlines and dimensions you need. Bracing outline, body
demensions, etc. If you have a nut and saddle made for the guitar, as
well as a setup for around $40, you can save a lot in that area as far as
tools and headaches go.       

I have a "Guitar" folder in my favorites, and in that folder are sub-folders.
"Bracing," "Bending," "Finish," etc. where I put the links in order to scan
them before I "do." I'm actually pretty focused on detailed info where
need be, but find the better details on the internet instead of in books.

What I'd recommend are John's voicing DVD's. I only have advanced
voicing, but there are things in the first one that I believe would be really
nice to know, like how brace position effects the outcome. C & N tells
you to glue the braces on and to *perhaps* carve until the top rings in a
way that there are no dominant tones. I don't know what that's supposed
to mean. But I listen to John tap the top and carve here then there, until it
rings the right way, and I can follow and hear that . . . as well as pretty
dominant tones. It's worth the $40 way more than C & N is worth the $30
since you're not making your neck.

I've looked at C & N, the Kinkead book, and others, and just think they're
redundant of what you can find here in the archive.

Lillian, i do exactly what James does. What differs a bitis that i have built my first with plywood to allow myself to make as many mistakes as i could on it and it was a great school, then i discovered the OLF and all the remaining questions were answered and can now concentrate on devoping my skills and experimenting on new things.

So start sis and don't be afraid of mistakes, they'll be part of your 30th guitar anyway, you'll just learn how to hide them better with time. Since jigs are an important part of what we do, you could start building most of them first, this will allow your tonewood to season even more and help you visualize the process in the meantime.